Order ofMelchizedek
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Wheat and Tares
So, today in church, we went through the parable of the wheat and tares (Matt 13:24-30, 36-43). And this reminded me of a related question I’ve had, but the pastor didn’t go into that today.
So, here’s what I was wondering. The pretrib rapture is definitely the most popular view, although I’m not solidly convinced on any of them. But if that is the case, how do these passages fit?
Matt 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
So, who is taken and who is left? Commentaries on this particular subject disagree. Here’s what Chuck Smith’s Commentary says quoting
Now, again two divergent interpretations. One says: they are taken away to judgment, and those who are taken away are the unfortunate ones because they are taken away for judgment. And those that are left are the fortunate ones. The other is that this is a reference to the rapture of the church. Those that are taken away are blessed, and those that remain stay for the judgment. And there are arguments on both sides. Whichever fits your scheme.
I had never heard this before, so I thought I’d look at a few more commentaries.
David Guzik says it's the good, as in the rapture of the Church. quoting
David Guzik Commentary
a. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left: Jesus here points to curious disappearances; to a catching away of some at the coming of the Son of Man (as also described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).
And Matthew Henry agrees with this idea. quoting
Matthew Henry Commentary
Here it is applied to them who shall be found alive. Christ will come unlooked for, will find people busy at their usual occupations, in the field, at the mill; and then, according as they are vessels of mercy prepared for glory, or vessels of wrath prepared for ruin, accordingly it will be with them; the one taken to meet the Lord and his angels in the air, to be for ever with him and them; the other left to the devil and his angels, who, when Christ has gathered out his own, will sweep up the residue.
However, John MacArthur sees it differently. He says that it is the wicked who are taken away and the good are left. Now, I know that MacArthur holds to a pretrib view, so I’m wondering how this all works together.
Another good indepth commentary on this issue can be found at CARM.
Here’s a quote from it, but there’s more if you follow the link above.quoting
Of related interest is a passage in Matt. 13:24-30 where Jesus gives the parable of the sower who sows good seed in his field and someone sows tares. The servants asked if they should go immediately and gather up the wheat. But, in verse 30, Jesus says, "Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn."
The point worth noting here is that the first ones gathered are the weeds, not the wheat. This is most interesting since Jesus explains the parable in Matt. 13:36-43 and states that they will be cast into the furnace.
Additionally, when we turn to Luke 17:1, which is the parallel passage of Matt. 24, we discover that the disciples ask Jesus a question in response to Jesus’ statement that "two will be in the field and one will be taken." In verse 37 they ask, "Where, Lord?" they asked. He [Jesus] replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."
They are taken to a place of death.
Interesting point. The mentioning of a dead body and vultures doesn't sound like the rapture to me. So, what do you think?
Who is taken first, the Church in rapture, or the wicked in judgment? And if the wicked are taken first, as these verses seem to suggest, how does that work with the pretribulation rapture view?
---
Do you not know? Have you not heard? He gives strength to the weary. To those who hope in Him, they will soar like eagles. -RSJ
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9/6/2009, 6:48 pm
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Staybrite
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Re: Wheat and Tares
End times is always a confusing subject for me, and difficult to find any "solid" defining passages for much of it.
And in the parable of the wheat and the tares it certainly sounds like the wheat and the tares will be harvested at the same time (are very shortly on the heels of each other). The parable also seems to support the ‘tares” being gathered just before the wheat.
Matthew 13:27-30 NASB
And he said to them, “An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, “Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?” But he said, “No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into the barn.”
---
Peace, that brief period in history when everyone stops to reload.
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9/7/2009, 10:55 am
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Bookworm88
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Re: Wheat and Tares
I see the gathering of the wheat and the tares to be at the END of the tribulation period. Before the Tribulation period starts, there is a gathering up of the church, but I don't see that as the same gathering as that depicted in Matthew 24. The way I understand it, there will be many people saved during the Tribulation. When Christ comes all the way down to earth at the end of the Tribulation, He will be taking the unsaved people off of the world to face judgment, and the saved people will be left on the earth to enter the Millenium alive. So the parable of the wheat and the tares would refer to the gathering of the unsaved (tares) before the saved enter the Millenium.
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9/7/2009, 11:27 am
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Order ofMelchizedek
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Re: Wheat and Tares
OOH, I think that might just make sense of the whole thing!
Thanks Bookworm!
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Do you not know? Have you not heard? He gives strength to the weary. To those who hope in Him, they will soar like eagles. -RSJ
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9/7/2009, 5:37 pm
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Staybrite
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Re: Wheat and Tares
That is good Bookworm. I never thought of it that way.
But I used to have an old pastor who didn't believe that they would be an "new believers" during the tribulation.
---
Peace, that brief period in history when everyone stops to reload.
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9/8/2009, 1:20 pm
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Order ofMelchizedek
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Re: Wheat and Tares
I thought there would be "tribulation saints." But I don't know, it could just be some "Left Behind" theology, I'll have to look into that and find some Scripture.
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Do you not know? Have you not heard? He gives strength to the weary. To those who hope in Him, they will soar like eagles. -RSJ
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9/8/2009, 3:14 pm
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Bookworm88
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Re: Wheat and Tares
quoting
Staybrite ...
That is good Bookworm. I never thought of it that way.
But I used to have an old pastor who didn't believe that they would be an "new believers" during the tribulation.
The way I learned it is that the new believers during the tribulation will start with the 144,000 and those 144,000 will go throughtout the world telling others.
Revelation 7
1 After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;[a]
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
“ Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
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9/8/2009, 8:33 pm
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Staybrite
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Re: Wheat and Tares
Wish I could get ahold of that old pastor, I would ask he what he thought of the 144 thousand.
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Peace, that brief period in history when everyone stops to reload.
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9/9/2009, 1:35 pm
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