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BornAgain9 Profile
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Re: Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'


quoting

Bookworm88 ...

quoting

BornAgain9 ...
It just doesn't make much sense Bookworm. The odds that the lines were forever kept separate are nil. You have only 3 breeding pairs -- four if you count Noah and his wife. It is not possible that their children would have avoided intermarrying. Let's say only one of them carried the Neanderthal genes. That would mean their children would have had to have sexual relations only with their siblings. Inbreeding, no matter how you cut it, could not be avoided and would have gone on for generations.



But inbreeding at that point in human history would not have been the problem that it is today. After all, those people before the flood lived to be 900 years old. They simply didn't pass along the degenerative issues that people devoloped later.



There are too many problems with this claim to give it any consideration as being valid. Your argument is that the degradation of the genetic lines would be protected from errors in copying by their pristine condition. Where is the evidence this is true? We have the genetic code for Neanderthals. Does what you see in it verify your claims? We have the genetic code for the 5000 year old Ice Man. His DNA was tracked to a single village were a school teacher was found who carried the ancient DNA. I don’t think there is any evidence that his DNA was significantly different. I believe this is the oldest modern human whose DNA has been sequenced. Those are grand claims Creationists make Bookworm, but I don’t think they are anything more than arm chair theorizing. I’ve never seen any claims made from the Creationist side that DNA findings are backing up their views. Have you? Do Creationists laud the findings of geneticists?

However, you haven’t addressed the concern I raised which is if there were only 3 or 4 breeding pairs of humans left in the world, and one or more carried the Neanderthal genes, then how is it those genes were not passed on to all of humanity? The findings corroborate the Out of Africa model. They don’t seem to fit the Noah model. How do you explain that?

For the Noah account to be true the genetic evidence has to fit the story.

5/28/2010, 3:10 pm Link to this post Send Email to BornAgain9   Send PM to BornAgain9 ICQ Blog
 
BornAgain9 Profile
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Re: Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'


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BornAgain9 ...
There are too many problems that arise when one starts contemplating all the difficulties (of Noah's flood).



quoting

Bookworm88 ...
Sure, if one contemplates difficulties without including God in the equation.

But then that can become the means of writing off every difficulty and truth slips through the fingers.

Do you think God would want you to believe in the one time existence of talking snakes? Doesn't it make more sense to acknowledge that this is part of an ancient myth? I don't mean to sound disrespectful Bookworm, but I don't understand how you can believe in talking animals.
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Re: Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'


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BornAgain9 ...
I know it's the wrong thread, but I haven't yet read the whole book and I wonder if Ed Boyd addresses Genesis in Letters from a Skeptic?

I believe it is correspondence 20, and Boyd takes the position that if God wants to use myth or symbolism to convey His message, then God can do that. So Boyd is likely to be less literal than what I personally am.

quoting

Do you see all of Genesis as essential to your belief?

I don't believe that my salvation is dependent upon a literal reading of Genesis. I take it literally, but friends of mine take it more symbolically, and I do not doubt their salvation. As you know, some Christians believe God used the process of evolution to accomplish His creative work. Just this past March, a 20-year professor at Reformed Theological Seminary resigned over his comments in support of evolution. You might be interested in this article.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/june/1.14.html

 Still, I personally believe in a seven day creation week, taking plave 6 to 10 thousand years ago.
6/8/2010, 8:11 pm Link to this post Send Email to Bookworm88   Send PM to Bookworm88
 
BornAgain9 Profile
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Re: Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'


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Bookworm88 ...
As you know, some Christians believe God used the process of evolution to accomplish His creative work. Just this past March, a 20-year professor at Reformed Theological Seminary resigned over his comments in support of evolution. You might be interested in this article.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/june/1.14.html



Interesting story Bookworm. One author I've read argues that many graduating seminarians probably have far more liberal views than what they later admit to. If so, Waltke is only the tip of the iceberg.
6/13/2010, 8:23 pm Link to this post Send Email to BornAgain9   Send PM to BornAgain9 ICQ Blog
 
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Re: Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'


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BornAgain9 ...
Interesting story Bookworm. One author I've read argues that many graduating seminarians probably have far more liberal views than what they later admit to. If so, Waltke is only the tip of the iceberg.

What you could very well be true of teachers as well as the graduates. Waltke would still be a professor if he had not posted his views on a website.

6/13/2010, 8:34 pm Link to this post Send Email to Bookworm88   Send PM to Bookworm88
 
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Re: Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'


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Bookworm88 ...

quoting

BornAgain9 ...
Interesting story Bookworm. One author I've read argues that many graduating seminarians probably have far more liberal views than what they later admit to. If so, Waltke is only the tip of the iceberg.

What you could very well be true of teachers as well as the graduates. Waltke would still be a professor if he had not posted his views on a website.


That may be true. Do you think he should have kept his thoughts to himself? I suppose he must have thought the matter important or he wouldn't have spoken out.

Do you recall, a year or two back, a biologist at one of the universities spoke out against evolution and soon was out of a job. Though in his case, I think, his contract was simply not renewed. Creationists made hey out of that incident; but I wonder if they would agree to Waltke remaining in his position?

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Re: Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'


Just remember, children, that God is LOVE and all our thoughts and concepts are as filthy rags... just saying...

---
The mountain I face today, will be the sand I walk upon tomorrow.
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Re: Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'


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pepperspaw ...

Just remember, children, that God is LOVE and all our thoughts and concepts are as filthy rags... just saying...

I thought that that verse about the "filthy rags" was talking about the idea that any attempt I make to gain heaven through my own righteousness only counts as filthy rags in the eyes of God. I don't think it is saying that all of my thought are as filthy rags, because then when I try to obey the verse that tells me to think on what is true and lovely and of good report, I wouldn't be able to.
. . just saying. . . emoticon

6/16/2010, 5:26 pm Link to this post Send Email to Bookworm88   Send PM to Bookworm88
 
BornAgain9 Profile
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Re: Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'


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Bookworm88 ...

quoting

pepperspaw ...

Just remember, children, that God is LOVE and all our thoughts and concepts are as filthy rags... just saying...

I thought that that verse about the "filthy rags" was talking about the idea that any attempt I make to gain heaven through my own righteousness only counts as filthy rags in the eyes of God. I don't think it is saying that all of my thought are as filthy rags, because then when I try to obey the verse that tells me to think on what is true and lovely and of good report, I wouldn't be able to.
. . just saying. . . emoticon



Bookworm, could you point me to that passage? I am not familiar with it.

6/17/2010, 6:08 am Link to this post Send Email to BornAgain9   Send PM to BornAgain9 ICQ Blog
 
BornAgain9 Profile
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Re: Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'


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pepperspaw ...

Just remember, children, that God is LOVE and all our thoughts and concepts are as filthy rags... just saying...



Nice to see another face. emoticon

Could you explain further, Pepperspaw, I don't really follow.

6/17/2010, 6:10 am Link to this post Send Email to BornAgain9   Send PM to BornAgain9 ICQ Blog
 


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